Since our argument a few days ago over money, I have barely touched him. I show polite interest, and chat when the mood takes me...but it is not the same, and he knows it.
I have not forgiven him for his unpleasant response when I asked for a larger share of the extra money I am making at work.
Maiyuu argues that any extra money he gives to me, I will spend on myself or others, not on our needs as a couple.
He is right, of course, but then a share of the money he keeps for us in the main account also goes on his own strange needs...for example, the nights he spent alone at a cheap, local hotel over Christmas, on a so-called mental health break.
At home, Maiyuu is working as hard as ever ... yesterday he made small pastry and custard pies, and larger custard slices with grapes inside.
He makes them so well, he should really sell them.
I feel sorry for him, as he does not know whether I am really enjoying the fruits of his labour any more, as I seem moody and distant.
If I appreciate his cooking, he feels valued.
If I ignore him or seem non-committal, he wonders if he has done something to upset me. He feels insecure and worried about what will happen next.
If he had a job, he would have a life outside home, from which he could draw a sense of self-worth or personal security even if his life with me was going through a bad patch.
But no. He wakes up every day not knowing what mood I will be in - but busies himself in the kitchen regardless, for what else can he do?
If he sits idly watching television, I might have a go at him...if he keeps busy, then at least he is out of harm's way.
What a life. Yet it's one has has chosen for himself.
This is not an invitation to readers to pile in with advice urging me to force him out to work. It's Maiyuu's life, and he must do as he sees fit.
I give him as much freedom as I think is reasonable, including control over most of the finances, because he wants to look after our needs as a couple, and make me happy.
Ur right,I mean the other bloggers shuld not be telling u what to do with ur bf. Its ur personal thing. Anyway,u shuld advise him to try to get a job especially at a bakery as that is what he loves to do.
ReplyDeleteanyway,i wish both of u happiness and since its still january,happy new year
"This is not an invitation to readers to pile in with advice urging me to force him out to work. It's Maiyuu's life, and he must do as he sees fit."
ReplyDeleteYou cannot blame us for wanting to give advice. You write up a post of your experience, we read it, and naturally come up with solutions and some of the more bold one's comment it. I think it is wrong to just throw off those who are willing to just throw in their fifty cents... instead of being all '...' about it, maybe you should just ignore it? By not addressing us or by just ignoring our comments, it would bring lots of peace.
Or is it because you enjoy this?
Well it's just by ten cents... i am not forcing you to accept it . It is your choice, not ours.
Oh and I mean throw off as in what you have been doing.
ReplyDeleteE.g addressing us in the sentence in your blog entry and also how you addressed that anon guy.
And being all "..." about it is just like being a ... I think you got it
h by the way....too much sweet things is not too good for your health especially if your age is over 50.
ReplyDeleteDeadalive: As I have said before, I welcome reader comments...in fact, the blog is nothing without your input, and lately I have been spoiled by lively responses to most posts.
ReplyDeleteSo, please keep them coming!
I was referring to the cynical posters who say the easiest solution for dealing with my boyfriend problems is (1) to take back control of the finances, and (2), force Maiyuu out to get a job.
Both involve me asserting my power over him. I don't want to go down that route, as he deserves to be happy in our relationship, and this is the way he wants to find happiness at present...by not working, and keeping control of the finances!
I know it must seem one-sided at times. Actually, it is. When we argue, I tell Maiyuu that he must be responsible for his own choices in life - and that the day may come when he regrets his decision not to work eg if I was to fall under a bus.
What fall under a bus!
ReplyDeleteyou must touch wood now.Don't wish bad things to happen pls
Ichimaru akira:
ReplyDelete> you must touch wood now.Don't wish bad things to happen pls
>
Thais have a funny ritual, which achieves the same thing...if they say something which they fear might have bad consequences for themselves ('Tomorrow, I might get run over by a bus!), they smack their lips gently with their fingers, and make a tossing motion, which looks similar to blowing someone a kiss.
It is meant to symbolise the fact that they tossing the thought away, so it can't hurt them.
So, I've just touched my lips and thrown that comment about buses away...maybe it will land on the guy sitting next to me!
Just joking.
It's totally inconcievable to me as a farang that you would even consider handing over your ATM card to Maiyuu. I've heard of this happening when rich westerners can afford to do such things, but you've clearly stated in previous posts that every end of the month has become a regular financial struggle. You even mentioned the threat of your electric power being switched off if the bill wasn't paid on time. Surely this couldn't happen with a western resident in Thailand with ample finances.
ReplyDeleteBut to hand it all over to this Maiyuu who clearly shows no desire to work or even show some affection, well I'm just pulling my hair out in disbelief.
It always angers me when relationships have clearly ended but couples will stick it out for more wasted years for fear of change and new opportunities. Maiyuu is most certainly not the kind of guy I would ever want. In Thailand today it is not an option to be lazy and un-ambitious. Just think of all the days you are wasting away NOT being with the right boy.
I really do hope that you can get your life back by taking control of your finances, like any other sane farang, and start looking forward to a new chapter in your life. But I suspect that like many you fear change. I'm afraid Maiyuu has had it too easy. I've no time for someone like that. And I wouldn't even consider him as some sort of Mother figure replacement, something you clearly desire. Someone to run things for you.
If the situation doesn't correct itself then I would not wish to continue reading what was an interesting blog. I just dont like reading about relationships that have gone past their sell by date. And I would agree with the other poster that said he's not really your boyfriend. But you still insist on calling him that to give you a false sense of security. Oh and when they DONT bring back their friends to your home then they are also showing their insecurities, fearing that YOU might have a roving eye.
It also puzzles me why you're not meeting lots of nice gay Thai boys. I mean, they're everywhere!
I just wonder how many other angry farangs would emerge with similar comments if all this long running and painfull saga was put up on one of those Thai forums.
S.
Reading this post makes me feel a little sorry for Maiyuu. As you said he is probably feeling very insecure about the relationship as you stated. Since he is not contributing much financially and he seems to be very dependent on you like a Thai wife to their husbands. Your relationship reminds me of my uncle & aunts relationship sometimes and the ATM thing is a very typical Thai relationship. In thailand, most of the time only one partner mainly the husband works and the wife holds the ATM, pays the bills, clean the house and cooks etc.
ReplyDeleteMaiyuu is probably very scared that you might break up with him and he won't know what to do with himself, financially, emotionally and physically.
From reading your posts for a year, it's obvious you love Maiyuu very much and because we don't really get to read Maiyuu's side of the story, we don't know what he thinks but I'm sure he loves you equally. He's been with you for so long and he is always at home, doesn't really want to go out and socialize much? why? I don't know but I'm assuming he is happy with your company and doesn't want anybody else?
He seems very attached to you. And in a way, it's bad for him. He needs to learn to be more independent.
He sounds like a good cook, maybe he should try and sell some of his cooking?
Orn: He is a good cook, and I agree, he should try selling some of his baking, because it would give him more of a sense of purpose in life.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments. Yes, I think he loves me very much. I love him, too, even though I could smack his bottom sometimes.
I agree with you, he is scared that I could get sick of him one day, wake up in a bad mood and on a whim throw him out.
I could not live with that sense of insecurity if I was him, which is why I would like him to get a job and see his friends more.
He appears to be going through a negative phase where his friends are concerned. 'They are too much like hard work - I would rather be alone,' he says.
I don't know what to do about that.
Can I say again how much I appreciate your Thai perspective on these things.
It might help bridge the gulf in understanding between Thai and farang views of how relationships here should run, which is so evident in some of the comments left by farang. Some farang here seem to have no idea about the way Thais think.
Anon S: Reading these stories makes you angry? My, you really are taking them personally.
May I suggest that if the thought of a farang giving his ATM to a Thai is so upsetting, that you might have a few unresolved issues regarding Thais.
Anon:
'If you don't date one of the many, many attractive and suitable, employed men of Thailand, it's because by not doing so you confirm your own feelings of worthlessness.'
I have read many stories about farang dating Thai youngsters who go to good universities or are in good jobs.
They are not always the ideal. In any event, as a Thai drinking friend put it to me the other night, Thais will always be Thais, no matter who they are.
Maiyuu contributes to our relationship in his own way. As I have spent longer here, I have become more independent, so I do not need him as much as I did.
However, I am not about to toss in an eight-year relationship simply because I need him to help me less, or because he gets a little neurotic at times, or doesn't work.
Of course he should work. Of course he should be more open about the way he manages our finances. I hope the day comes when he makes these changes himelf.
Socially isolated? Most of my friends are Thais, by choice.
I love my farang friends at work dearly, because they give my life balance, and meaning; however, I came here to spend my life with Thais, not to live a farang-style life, transplanted overseas.
I didn't say youngsters, and I didn't say university-educated. All I qualified Thai guys with was 'employed.' In fact, staying away from youngsters is probably a good idea for you in seeking a suitable mate.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you don't remember the social isolation you portray of yourself in your own posts; go back and read some of them. I also didn't say you should spend time with foreigners or in the expat bubble- but if nothing else, the general quality of the Thais you are spending time with (as reported in your blog) raises some concerns: people drinking late at market bars (how can they regularly do this with jobs?), young gangster hoodlums and slum children, former go-go workers, massage workers, etc. Perhaps your blog is not really an accurate portrayal of you.
I was not surprised to hear you play the 'you just don't understand Thai culture' with a previous reader, but on very slim grounds- because he knows Maiyuu is insecure he has some special 'Thai knowledge?' It's a variation on your repeated assertions that there is just something 'special' about this very bizarre situation of yours that we mere readers can't understand that explains why you should continue to ignore your own needs and allow yourself to be used.
Anyway, as I have repeated before: Maiyuu has nothing to do with this, and Thailand has nothing to do with this, though both of these things are convenient ways for you to avoid the issue of your own problems. It's obvious enough what is wrong with your relationship with Maiyuu, but focusing on this would simply drive you to defend him and give you the distraction that you crave from facing the real question of why you want to be stuck.
Well, anyway, I'm not a professional counsellor and even if I were it isn't work that is supposed to be evangelical. I can't decide for you that you need help or that you can have a better life. It is a pity if you don't decide these things for yourself. Good luck with it all.
Chill out! I am not obliged to respond point-by-point to your replies, as this is not a debate.
ReplyDeleteI can introduce new ideas (university educated, middle class or whatever) if I please.
My Asian readers seem much more sympathetic towards Maiyuu's predicament than the western ones. I wonder why that is so?
I stand by my assertion that they are likely to understand Asian life better...that much stands to reason. However, not all will agree with me...at least one regular Asian reader has urged me to get my ATM card back.
My boyfriend is dysfunctional, but won't help himself. I can't force him to change, but nor will I leave him just because he is depressive or his life appears to be falling to bits.
We have been together eight years, and there's always a chance his life will improve. If it was me falling apart instead of him, I hope he would stick by me, too.
This sentiment between partners is universal: it's called compassion.
I'm just pointing out that -I- didn't say those things- which means those (youngster, university student) are the things -you- are thinking of, which once again don't sound very promising as general categories for partner choices for you.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to 'debate' you, I'm trying to point out patterns in your thinking to you which need more examination. I don't care any longer about Maiyuu (or your or other reader's opinions about him), and as I continue to point out, he is not the issue, though you would like him to be because that is your own perception of the problems you face. Your problem is that you don't want to face up to your responsibilities for taking care of yourself, because you don't think that you are worth it.
What more is there to say? You're not ready to focus on yourself- it's pretty tragic.
So many comments to read and very interesting indeed.
ReplyDeleteM, I'd take these responses as positive feedback of your writing skills. It just goes to show, people are not only reading your blog for entertainment. But people are also caring as well! a little too much in some case.
In the ideal world, I'm sure everyone wants to date the perfect person, who is motivated, has a job and contributes financially. However, realistically love is such an amazing thing that sometimes it only makes sense to two people and not to everyone.
When two people are in love, it's more about the chemistry and connection. Sometimes, it's not really about who pays what etc etc
Love is really not that complicated. And yes I do agree, M could probably find another boyfriend to replace Maiyuu who will be better for him financially. But that's up to him to decide. Only you will know what you want and what's good for you.
I feel it's probably unfair to criticize Maiyuu so much. Some makes him sound like a gold digger or something. And from reading the blog I don't think he is. If he was, he'd be out and about socializing and playing the field behind your back.
He may not be the most hardworking person on the planet or the most romantic. But he seems loyal. And for a couple who's been with each other for more than 8 years. You are more like each other's family then love birds, this is probably why there's not much sweet romance in the relationship. Perhaps this is why some people view it negatively.
You defend Maiyuu every time someone criticizes him, this just shows how much you love him. And if you love him that much, and he loves you enough to shut himself off socially...and be with you 24/7. Then you guys belong together..because the only thing that matters is that you love each other...
just as long as you have love as the basis....everything else is a work in progress.....
although evidently written from your perspective, your post made me understand where maiyuu was coming from more.. i think..
ReplyDeleteit reminds me of films like 'far from heaven' and 'the hours'--isolated, confused 50s housewives in suburbia, which i inevitably sympathize with...
by the way: "they smack their lips gently with their fingers, and make a tossing motion, which looks similar to blowing someone a kiss."--is this for real?? i've never seen anyone do it in my life. some thais knock on a table or something like that...
It's really not as grim as it sounds, Mr Aurix. I should really have written it as a novel, with a tidy start, middle, and ending...then perhaps it would come across more clearly, and to outsiders, make more sense.
ReplyDeleteYes, that lip-smacking or bad omen-tossing thing is for real, though I have only seen my teen students do it. I have yet to see any adult Thais carrying on this way.
Orn, I will respond to your thoughtful comments shortly...I am just putting up a blog post!
ReplyDeleteOrn,
ReplyDeleteYour comments are terrific. For me, they sum up love perfectly. It needn't be such a complicated thing, as you point out in your remarks.
'He may not be the most hardworking person on the planet or the most romantic. But he seems loyal. And for a couple who's been with each other for more than 8 years. You are more like each other's family then love birds, this is probably why there's not much sweet romance in the relationship. Perhaps this is why some people view it negatively.'
I am sure it is. Some foreigners here are still in the romancing phase, or may never have been in a long-term relationship with a Thai.
'I feel it's probably unfair to criticize Maiyuu so much. Some makes him sound like a gold digger or something. And from reading the blog I don't think he is. If he was, he'd be out and about socializing and playing the field behind your back.'
True! If he was ever like that, he gave it up long ago. I think he still sees some young Thais for casual play occasionally, but I don't mind that.
'In the ideal world, I'm sure everyone wants to date the perfect person, who is motivated, has a job and contributes financially. However, realistically love is such an amazing thing that sometimes it only makes sense to two people and not to everyone.
'When two people are in love, it's more about the chemistry and connection. Sometimes, it's not really about who pays what etc etc'
Well put. No one else knows what it is like, unless they have seen it with their own eyes. A foreigner friend of mine who has met Maiyuu jokes that he is probably lacing the baking goodies he makes for me with cut glass, so he can kill me off.
I tell him about Maiyuu the social loner, who does nothing but cook, keeps tight control of the finances, and won't be seen with me outdoors. Farang C jokes that he's probably trying to do me in.
However, farang C has at least met him, seen us together, and knows what our lives are like. If he thought I was really unhappy, or we were really unsuited for each other, I am sure he would tell me...maybe not when he is sober, then at least when we drink together.
Yet he believes I am happy enough, and appear to be doing okay.
Thank you again for your comments, Orn.
Here's a question: Does Maiyuu ever read this blog? I mean, he must know all about it. Does curiosity ever make him check out what you've been writing?
ReplyDeleteIf he does, I would feel very bad for some of the things he must read coming from the reader's comments. In my opinion if you're happy, that's all that counts! Forget what anyone else may think!
I live in the states and have a Thai Bf that was adopted at a young age...its amazing how he still acts like a true Thai though...after comparing his behavior and mannerisms to what i read :P
We both want to learn Thai soon and spend time there. Do you have any advice?
I, too, am impressed at how 'Thai' a Thai can remain, even when he is living overseas.
ReplyDeleteI met a taxi driver last night whose elder sister lives in the US. She married an American, and they have three kids, who visit Thailand including their uncle the taxi driver together once a year.
The kids are in their early 20s. They are popular with Thais here because they are so good-looking, the taxi driver told me.
He reckons that even though they speak little Thai (they were raised in the US), he can spot a lot of 'Thai-ness' in them nonetheless.
No, Maiyuu does not read the blog. He is more interested in his cooking. And yes, he would be dismayed to read the views of the some of the jaundiced foreigners who visit this blog.
As for the language question, I will ask a foreigner friend I am seeing tonight for advice. My friend has learnt Thai while he has been studying at a university here, so might have some ideas.
How can this guy just claim he knows everything about you and your bf and judge you on a highly psychological level.
ReplyDeleteI mean it's obvious you are not always happy and quite lonely sometimes but this whole business with you having a problem with yourself and project this on your bf, it's rubbish.
Also his claim that you lack a mother figure and so on...I mean it's used against gays isn't it.
People say, you are gay because you lacked a clear father figure in life blahblahblah. I mean it may be true that you project some problems on him but how could this mister anonymous even claim to know what is going on in your head.
Our situation is not all that different. We are both in long-term relationships (you much longer though and with a thai).
I think many of these people dont understand what that means. it means we dont have the fuck of our life everyday.
It means we are not prowling around "boys" every day paying them things (where does this come from anyway that we always have to pay other people), it means that sometimes we dont see each other for a day or two and it also means that we dont know what the other part does every second.
It also means that we both have our little secrets. it also means we get sick of each other sometimes (in some cases even more often).
Well, on the other hand we get the security of a relationship, someone waiting at home, someone to talk to when we have a problem, someone who cooks for us or cleans for us. Someone we can cook for.
Someone we can give a little chocolate gift to (i love doing that:) I think the people that criticise you so heavily can not understand the concept of a relationship per se.
I agree, some things in your relationship seem to be a bit quirky but so is everyone else's.
I dont want to judge whether your relationship is "past its sell-by date" because how could I know???
These people still havent understood that we are writing a BLOG and not writing our every minute and feelings of our lives.
Do the bloggers want to know a story like: today my bf was at uni. then he came home, I hugged him and then we ate something.
Then we had average sex, talked about our day, watched a movie and went to bed?
I dont think they care about it. So we write when we have problems. The blog can act as a valve to release pressure when we are frustrated. You seem to not have all that many gay friends so maybe you cant really release steam through them and use your blog instead.
For me, I chose not to involve my bf in my blog because I figure people are not interested as we have a happy relationship most of the days.
And even though he is the most important part of my life, he is very very rarely present in my blog. What does that tell us? Blogs are NOT reflections of realities, only partial ones. Readers should learn that.
--and one more idea.
ReplyDeleteThese people that criticise you for hanging out with the wrong crowd and for having the wrong boyfriend and say that you should dump him are probably the ones that come here to "find a boy" and they do this in Silom.
He is then probably working at mcdonalds or something and call this stable work. Then when they are not satisfied with the "boy"'s behaviour anymore (e.g. he develops a life of his own, he spends time with his friends, he is bored, he spends too much money etc) they will dump him.
Ultimately a relationship between a foreign adult man and a younger thai man (or 'boy') is bound to be unbalanced.
I dont think that's very good but we cant just always expect "balance" in everything. in fact for me it's the same. I always pay if I go out with my bf to restaurants because I know he cant afford it.
That's nothing bad. and I doubt that these man actually seek for "balance". They seek a "boy" that will follow their orders.
Take away the "b" in "boy" and insert a "t" and you know what they want.
Ok, a lot of assumptions here but I have a funny feeling in my tummy that they are right. Sadly, most middle-aged to elderly people come here for one thing. There are exceptions but they remain exceptions...I always want to believe in exceptions but sadly most of the time the gay bangkok for foreigners world is pretty monontonous.